Jump to content

Custom Search





Welcome to the Ford Flex Forum


Sign In 

Create Account
Welcome to the Ford Flex Forum. Like most online communities, you must register to create topics or post in our community - but don't worry this is a simple free process that requires minimal information for you to signup. Be a part of the Ford Flex Forum by signing in or creating an account.
  • Start new topics and reply to others
  • Subscribe to topics and forums to get email updates
  • Get your own profile page and make new friends
  • Send personal messages to other members
  • Create a photo album and post photos. . .more!
Click here to create an account
 
Guest Message by DevFuse

Feel Faster?  We're Now on a Dedicated Server!


Photo
- - - - -

Winter tire size, make and model


  • Please log in to reply
24 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   Flex42

Flex42

    New Flex Member

  • Ford Flex Members
  • 34 posts
  • Location:Cambridge, ON, Canada

Posted 27 October 2009 - 05:46 AM

In a few days I will be taking delivery of an ecoboost Flex with the 20" wheel option. I plan to put winter tires on it to deal with our Canadian winters. I have purchased a set of OEM 18" wheels to put the snow tires on. My question is what tire size. The OEM tire sizes are 255/45/20, 235/55/19 and 235/60/18 I believe. I was considering the stock 235/60/18 but was also thinking of 255/55/18 (same diameter but wider) or 245/60/18 (a little taller that stock). 235 just seems narrow for the size of vehicle and performance of the engine. The 245/60 may be a good compromize and a little extra ground clearance may not hurt. I would assume the wider tire will work better on dry pavement and ice, with the narrow tire likely working better in rain, slush, and snow. With the majority of time the roads being dry but still having to deal with snow, slush and ice, it makes winter tire decision a pain. I hate the feel of snow tires in the dry but am sure glad I have them when the conditions deteriorate.

In looking for a good performance winter tire to suit this vehicle, I see the choices are practically no existance. For non-performance truck winter tires, I am favouring either the DM-V1 from Bridgestone or the Geolander G072 from Yokohama. Any opinions on these? Any other recommendations? Has anyone come across any more performance winter tire options that might work?

Can't wait to get it and get some mileage in before the snow flies!

#2 OFFLINE   QSHIPWAGON

QSHIPWAGON

    FLEXible Flyer

  • Ford Flex Members
  • 298 posts
  • Location:Seacoast of New Hampshire

Posted 27 October 2009 - 08:17 AM

In a few days I will be taking delivery of an ecoboost Flex with the 20" wheel option. I plan to put winter tires on it to deal with our Canadian winters. I have purchased a set of OEM 18" wheels to put the snow tires on. My question is what tire size. The OEM tire sizes are 255/45/20, 235/55/19 and 235/60/18 I believe. I was considering the stock 235/60/18 but was also thinking of 255/55/18 (same diameter but wider) or 245/60/18 (a little taller that stock). 235 just seems narrow for the size of vehicle and performance of the engine. The 245/60 may be a good compromize and a little extra ground clearance may not hurt. I would assume the wider tire will work better on dry pavement and ice, with the narrow tire likely working better in rain, slush, and snow. With the majority of time the roads being dry but still having to deal with snow, slush and ice, it makes winter tire decision a pain. I hate the feel of snow tires in the dry but am sure glad I have them when the conditions deteriorate.

In looking for a good performance winter tire to suit this vehicle, I see the choices are practically no existance. For non-performance truck winter tires, I am favouring either the DM-V1 from Bridgestone or the Geolander G072 from Yokohama. Any opinions on these? Any other recommendations? Has anyone come across any more performance winter tire options that might work?

Can't wait to get it and get some mileage in before the snow flies!


I just put stock SE 18" rims on my SEL with Blizzak DM-V1's in 235/60/18. No snow experience yet in a Flex, but plenty of experience as I've been a winter driving instructor in 100's of vehicles since 1998. The DM-V1 is a high load rated tire (a plus with Blizzaks) and you don't want to go wider... any gains will be more than offset by losses in snow.

I could go on and on and on... but don't have the time right now. If you have specific questions, please post and I will try to get back to you.

#3 OFFLINE   Flex42

Flex42

    New Flex Member

  • Ford Flex Members
  • 34 posts
  • Location:Cambridge, ON, Canada

Posted 27 October 2009 - 03:06 PM

Thanks for the advice on size. Makes sense. Just trying to decide if the balance of dry vs snow/wet traction may favour something wider, but likely minimal gains in the dry vs more significant loses in snow as you pointed out.
Thoughts on the Yoko's vs the DM-V1's? The last set of winters I had were the DM-V3's if I recall correct. I thought they were OK when new but seemed to lose grip which each season, which is a trait I've noticed with other Bridgestone tires I've had. Life was good, just didn't like the lose of grip with age.

#4 OFFLINE   QSHIPWAGON

QSHIPWAGON

    FLEXible Flyer

  • Ford Flex Members
  • 298 posts
  • Location:Seacoast of New Hampshire

Posted 27 October 2009 - 05:33 PM

Thanks for the advice on size. Makes sense. Just trying to decide if the balance of dry vs snow/wet traction may favour something wider, but likely minimal gains in the dry vs more significant loses in snow as you pointed out.
Thoughts on the Yoko's vs the DM-V1's? The last set of winters I had were the DM-V3's if I recall correct. I thought they were OK when new but seemed to lose grip which each season, which is a trait I've noticed with other Bridgestone tires I've had. Life was good, just didn't like the lose of grip with age.


Bridgestone (Blizzaks) use a branded "multi-cell" compound in many if not all of their winter tire products. Once this is worn down (roughly the 50% "cap") the remaining tread is a "normal" (softer, more pliable in cold temperatures) winter tread/traction compound. I've found the multi-cell to be very prone to wear in warm conditions and they will never outlast something like a Nokian if you can afford them (my wallet is tight right now). I expect two FULL seasons out of them, whereas I would expect more like at least 3 out of Nokians/Gislaveds/Vredstens, but the best seem to be Nokians year after year. If you try to use a Blizzak for as long as a Nokian, you'll be disappointed and you have to know when to toss them. Most of the Blizzak series have softer sidewalls than you might be used to, but I expect the extra load rating on the V1's will give me the balance I'm looking for at this excellent price point (about $145 a shot locally, $133 I think at Tire Rack). Yokohamas might be excellent but they just don't have the history of the brands I'm familiar with, and I'm not ready to experiment with a somewhat unknown against a known quantity.

#5 OFFLINE   Flex42

Flex42

    New Flex Member

  • Ford Flex Members
  • 34 posts
  • Location:Cambridge, ON, Canada

Posted 27 October 2009 - 07:05 PM

Bridgestone (Blizzaks) use a branded "multi-cell" compound in many if not all of their winter tire products. Once this is worn down (roughly the 50% "cap") the remaining tread is a "normal" (softer, more pliable in cold temperatures) winter tread/traction compound. I've found the multi-cell to be very prone to wear in warm conditions and they will never outlast something like a Nokian if you can afford them (my wallet is tight right now). I expect two FULL seasons out of them, whereas I would expect more like at least 3 out of Nokians/Gislaveds/Vredstens, but the best seem to be Nokians year after year. If you try to use a Blizzak for as long as a Nokian, you'll be disappointed and you have to know when to toss them. Most of the Blizzak series have softer sidewalls than you might be used to, but I expect the extra load rating on the V1's will give me the balance I'm looking for at this excellent price point (about $145 a shot locally, $133 I think at Tire Rack). Yokohamas might be excellent but they just don't have the history of the brands I'm familiar with, and I'm not ready to experiment with a somewhat unknown against a known quantity.


I have looked at Nokians before. I actually have a set thier studded tires for my mountain bike in the winter, but that is largely irrelivent compared to a car tire. When I looked at them a few years ago for my wifes car, I noted that besides the tires being quite pricy, the rubber compound was extremely soft and easy to bend the tread blocks. I figured this might work well in the snow and cold, but given the variable winter conditions we need to deal with, I figured they would struggle on dry pavement, particularly if the temperatures started getting up. This was an observation and not based on driving on them, which could prove to be completely different. When I looked up reviews, I noted concerns with the squirmy feel of the tire. I decided to not risk an expensive purchase on a tire that we may not like. I ended up going with Pirelli Winter Carving, which we are a quite happy with and like a lot better than the first gen Michelin Aplins that we had previously.
I will take a second look at Gislaved and Nokian though. Would you recommend their studded (which I can't use studded) or their studless?

#6 OFFLINE   QSHIPWAGON

QSHIPWAGON

    FLEXible Flyer

  • Ford Flex Members
  • 298 posts
  • Location:Seacoast of New Hampshire

Posted 27 October 2009 - 07:57 PM

I have looked at Nokians before. I actually have a set thier studded tires for my mountain bike in the winter, but that is largely irrelivent compared to a car tire. When I looked at them a few years ago for my wifes car, I noted that besides the tires being quite pricy, the rubber compound was extremely soft and easy to bend the tread blocks. I figured this might work well in the snow and cold, but given the variable winter conditions we need to deal with, I figured they would struggle on dry pavement, particularly if the temperatures started getting up. This was an observation and not based on driving on them, which could prove to be completely different. When I looked up reviews, I noted concerns with the squirmy feel of the tire. I decided to not risk an expensive purchase on a tire that we may not like. I ended up going with Pirelli Winter Carving, which we are a quite happy with and like a lot better than the first gen Michelin Aplins that we had previously.
I will take a second look at Gislaved and Nokian though. Would you recommend their studded (which I can't use studded) or their studless?


Studless... remember, don't confuse a soft tire tread in a store at 72 degrees intended to be used at ambient temperatures mostly below freezing with longevity... if you were driving my almost 300HP Audi Wagon like a madman on dry pavement over 40 degrees I'd be concerned with squirm.... but we're not, we're talking about a Flex and you're probably not pushing it enough ( I hope not ) where you need to be on something like the LM25... if you like the Pirellis (not a bad choice) you are going to want to make love to a Nokian IMHO (in which case you will definitely not want studs) :lol:

#7 OFFLINE   Flex42

Flex42

    New Flex Member

  • Ford Flex Members
  • 34 posts
  • Location:Cambridge, ON, Canada

Posted 28 October 2009 - 02:38 PM

I will try to leave tires out of my personal life, particularly studded tires. Successfully managed that so far.
I definitely didn't want studded tires, but was wondering if the 5 SUV when not studded is better or worse than the R SUV in your opinion or from any other source. Pricewise, there doesn't seem to be much in it between the 2. The 5 SUV is a T rated tire whereas the R SUV is a R rated tire. Both have the same load rating.
I looked at Gislaved, but it doesn't look like they currently offer a tire to suit the Flex, unless I missed it.
I am still keeping the Bridgestone and Yokohama on my radar.

#8 OFFLINE   QSHIPWAGON

QSHIPWAGON

    FLEXible Flyer

  • Ford Flex Members
  • 298 posts
  • Location:Seacoast of New Hampshire

Posted 28 October 2009 - 04:00 PM

....was wondering if the 5 SUV when not studded is better or worse than the R SUV in your opinion or from any other source.


I can't say, but in big general terms when Nokian offers a choice of studded/non-studded in the same tire, that tire is "generally" the more aggressive snow and ice tire than the ones that are not offered as studded... generally... why not give Nokian a call?

#9 OFFLINE   Flex42

Flex42

    New Flex Member

  • Ford Flex Members
  • 34 posts
  • Location:Cambridge, ON, Canada

Posted 28 October 2009 - 04:49 PM

There is a local tire shop that carries both Nokian, Bridgestone and Yokohama so I can get comparative pricing as well as an option on each.
I will try to drop by Saturday.

#10 OFFLINE   Tdot

Tdot

    New Flex Member

  • Ford Flex Members
  • 4 posts

Posted 29 October 2009 - 09:45 AM

The safest option is Nokian Hakka 5 with studs. If you're not going to run studs, the Hakka R SUV will outperform the Hakka 5 SUV without studs.

#11 OFFLINE   Flex42

Flex42

    New Flex Member

  • Ford Flex Members
  • 34 posts
  • Location:Cambridge, ON, Canada

Posted 29 October 2009 - 04:57 PM

The safest option is Nokian Hakka 5 with studs. If you're not going to run studs, the Hakka R SUV will outperform the Hakka 5 SUV without studs.


It is not legal to run studs in Southern Ontario so not really an option. Even if they were, the roads are cleared down to bare pavement most of the time. Now if they would stop using so much salt!

#12 OFFLINE   QSHIPWAGON

QSHIPWAGON

    FLEXible Flyer

  • Ford Flex Members
  • 298 posts
  • Location:Seacoast of New Hampshire

Posted 29 October 2009 - 05:21 PM

The safest option is Nokian Hakka 5 with studs. If you're not going to run studs, the Hakka R SUV will outperform the Hakka 5 SUV without studs.


Not that I doubt you, but what's your source for this information as I'd like to have and share it with others... and by perform, what do you mean? I take it you've got some knowledge here as you just joined today and both of your posts are with regard to somewhat obscure Nokian tire knowledge.

Edited by QSHIPWAGON, 29 October 2009 - 05:27 PM.


#13 OFFLINE   flexflex

flexflex

    New Flex Member

  • Ford Flex Members
  • 9 posts
  • Location:Cambridge, Ontario

Posted 29 October 2009 - 05:31 PM

It's interesting to hear people's thoughts on winter tires for the Flex; I was beginning to think I was the only one making such a big deal out of making this seemingly basic decision!

I have ordered - but not yet taken delivery of - Michelin Latitude Alpin HP 235/60/18. I came quite close to going with Nokians that were highly reccomended by the people at Kal Tire. I'm sure that they are a fabulous winter tire, but something tells me that they are really best for roads that are snow-covered most of the time and would not work as well on dry? I also read a review somewhere claiming that they are prone to hydroplane.

As for handling, while I don't foresee pushing the Flex to it's limits or anything, I have experienced some Japanese winter tires on my company car (a Malibu) that make me realize that I don't want to spend a lot of money and end up with a very "squirmy" set of tires - really not good for control on a slippery highway.

Anyway, hope I've made a reasonable decision with the 18 inch Michelins; with wheels and sensors they are costing a small fortune!

Also, trying to prepare the young Flex for it's first winter, I've ordered a set of Huskey Floor liners and plan to have the car Krown Rust Proofed - anyone else?

#14 OFFLINE   Tdot

Tdot

    New Flex Member

  • Ford Flex Members
  • 4 posts

Posted 30 October 2009 - 06:44 AM

Not that I doubt you, but what's your source for this information as I'd like to have and share it with others... and by perform, what do you mean? I take it you've got some knowledge here as you just joined today and both of your posts are with regard to somewhat obscure Nokian tire knowledge.


OK, I'll confess that I work for Nokian Tyres. I left my answers slightly obscure because I don't want to be "that guy" who joins a forum just to flog the company that I work for. I was simply hoping to help answer a few questions.

I came to the forum because I've picked up a Flex yesterday to be used as my company vehicle. I was hoping to find some potential upgrades/accessories ideas for this new vehicle.

To clarify the R vs. 5 debate, the Hakka 5 SUV was designed to work at its best with studs. The Hakka R SUV, obviously, was designed to work at its best without studs. The difference is the technology found on the Hakka R SUV to deal with water found on top of the ice. It is this layer of water that causes out vehicles to slip on ice (yes, a cold tire on dry ice will stop reasonably quickly). Since the Hakka 5 has spikes that dig into the ice (studs), they don't need as much emphasis on technology to deal with this thin layer of water.

I also have 10 years working for a distributor selling various brands of tires. If anyone has any tire related questions, I will do my best to answer any questions that you might have.

#15 OFFLINE   QSHIPWAGON

QSHIPWAGON

    FLEXible Flyer

  • Ford Flex Members
  • 298 posts
  • Location:Seacoast of New Hampshire

Posted 30 October 2009 - 08:18 AM

OK, I'll confess that I work for Nokian Tyres. I left my answers slightly obscure because I don't want to be "that guy" who joins a forum just to flog the company that I work for. I was simply hoping to help answer a few questions.

I came to the forum because I've picked up a Flex yesterday to be used as my company vehicle. I was hoping to find some potential upgrades/accessories ideas for this new vehicle.

To clarify the R vs. 5 debate, the Hakka 5 SUV was designed to work at its best with studs. The Hakka R SUV, obviously, was designed to work at its best without studs. The difference is the technology found on the Hakka R SUV to deal with water found on top of the ice. It is this layer of water that causes out vehicles to slip on ice (yes, a cold tire on dry ice will stop reasonably quickly). Since the Hakka 5 has spikes that dig into the ice (studs), they don't need as much emphasis on technology to deal with this thin layer of water.

I also have 10 years working for a distributor selling various brands of tires. If anyone has any tire related questions, I will do my best to answer any questions that you might have.


Fair enough... I knew something was up...and welcome to the forum. I'm an old Nokian fan from way back. In fact, I was buddies with a kid whose father was one of the first importers in the US when he was doing amateur rally racing. I only wish the price was lower on Nokians. The value equation is certainly good but getting over that initial price point can be tough. It was for me this year, so I'm Blizzacking for a bit. Next set will be Nokians again.

#16 OFFLINE   Flex42

Flex42

    New Flex Member

  • Ford Flex Members
  • 34 posts
  • Location:Cambridge, ON, Canada

Posted 31 October 2009 - 11:48 AM

OK, I went to a local tire shopthis morning that carries Nokian. They recommended their R SUV. Definitely not cheap. Looks like they are about 30% more than either the Yokohama G072, Bridgestone DM-Z1 or Toyo G02 Plus, which are all about the same price. I would consider these all to be top rated tires and are all 5 start rated tires on the APA web site. The R SUV are not on the list, but the 5 SUV are and have a 4 star rating. I am struggling with the cost difference, when I think the cheaper of these are still not inexpensive. What makes the Nokian's a better tire than the others? Is there any recommended options for buying these cheaper in the the Hamilton/Toronto area of Southern Ontario? The shop I got the price from was Kal Tire.

#17 OFFLINE   QSHIPWAGON

QSHIPWAGON

    FLEXible Flyer

  • Ford Flex Members
  • 298 posts
  • Location:Seacoast of New Hampshire

Posted 31 October 2009 - 05:13 PM

OK, I went to a local tire shopthis morning that carries Nokian. They recommended their R SUV. Definitely not cheap. Looks like they are about 30% more than either the Yokohama G072, Bridgestone DM-Z1 or Toyo G02 Plus, which are all about the same price. I would consider these all to be top rated tires and are all 5 start rated tires on the APA web site. The R SUV are not on the list, but the 5 SUV are and have a 4 star rating. I am struggling with the cost difference, when I think the cheaper of these are still not inexpensive. What makes the Nokian's a better tire than the others? Is there any recommended options for buying these cheaper in the the Hamilton/Toronto area of Southern Ontario? The shop I got the price from was Kal Tire.


If you can get Nokians for only 30% more there's a clear value proposition in superior performance and longevity.

#18 OFFLINE   Phippen

Phippen

    New Flex Member

  • Ford Flex Members
  • 4 posts

Posted 01 November 2009 - 04:39 AM

The safest option is Nokian Hakka 5 with studs. If you're not going to run studs, the Hakka R SUV will outperform the Hakka 5 SUV without studs.


I am planning to put 235/60 18 winter tires on my Ecoboost Flex. I live near Boston MA where we don't get a lot of snow and have used Nokian WR SUV tires in the winter on my Yukon XL and WRG2 SUV tires on my Honda CR-V year round. I am trying to choose between WRG2 SUV and Hakkapeliitta R SUV tires for the Flex. I am wondering if the WRG2 would be enough better on clear roads to offset what I assume is worse performance onsnow/ice.

#19 OFFLINE   Flex42

Flex42

    New Flex Member

  • Ford Flex Members
  • 34 posts
  • Location:Cambridge, ON, Canada

Posted 01 November 2009 - 10:04 AM

Looks like we have some Nokian fans here. I have not used them, but have used Michelin, Bridgestone and Pirelli's in the past. Does anyone know of a comparitive test report on the Nokian R SUV vs the Bridgestone DM-V1 (or previous gen DM-V3) and/or the Yokohama G072. I am just trying to justify the cost difference when I consider the JAP sourced tires good preformance and life, and have the highest industry ratings. As tires are always changing, I think it is really hard to go on personal accounts when people aren't usually in a position to compare tires of the same generation.

#20 OFFLINE   Tdot

Tdot

    New Flex Member

  • Ford Flex Members
  • 4 posts

Posted 09 November 2009 - 10:55 AM

I'm glad to see that there are so many of you debating which winter tire to use. The reality is that you will be much better off during the winter months with tires that are designed to perform at colder temperatures (not only in snowy and icy condition). Regardless of which brand of winter tires you decide to use, you and your familly will be kept much safer for making this decision.

There is one main difference between Nokian and the other tire companies. Nokian is a company from Finland, and therefore is the only company that operates and builds the majority of our product in a Nordic climate. For this reason, we are the self proclaimed experts in winter driving conditions. There is also a continued focus on safety and relentless innovation that seperates Nokian from the rest of the pack. People will spend a little more on Nokians for the same reason they will spend more on other performance products (Eibach springs, 90+ octane fuel, performance filters and exaust, etc). There is certainly a "value proposition" to be made, and certain consumers will opt to spend the extra money for a better product. The best testimonial that I see to back this up is the same that you see in this forum; people that have used our product continue to use our product and tell all of their friends and familly how great it has worked for them.

I've already gone over the differences between the Hakka 5 and Hakka R. Our best selling product in North America is our "All Weather" product, the WR G2. We are in our 3rd generation of All Weather tires, and the popularity continues to climb. It is important to understand that the WR G2 is designed and intended as a winter tire for Central Europe. The area that I always relate to is Germany. German winters will see winter conditions and freezing weather, although not as often or severe as they do in Finland. For these reasons, the WR G2 needs to be able to perform in winter conditions, but also in wet and dry conditions where the vehicle will need to maintain its high speed handling for use on the Autobahn. When we bring this tire to North America, we are able to offer this product with a mileage warranty and encourage people to use it year round. Now I'm not claiming this to be a miracle product. It is a great "performance winter" tire for those who want their vehicles to maintain their cornering/handling ability even though they've decided to buy winter tires. It is a great product for those in a milder winter climate (see Boston MA, Phippen). The big catch for most people is that the tire is the best compromise you can make if you only want to use one set of tires year round. It handles well in all conditions and has good wear characteristics when compared to All Season tires. All of this makes it a very unique product and for some, a new way of thinking about their tires. Many people simply throw them on and forget the forecast.

Hopefully this answers some of your questions. Drive Safely!






Custom Search




Privacy Policy Terms of Service ·